Ok Guys, it just might be time to have a more full-throttle conversation. BORT has definitely gotten off to a slow start, but with the season soon approaching and this site being a place where some of us will post game time chats and recaps . . . much is to be looked forward to.
Over the past few years there has been a rumble about Angelos' intentions with selling the team. This past off season it was rumored that he was not aggressively seeking Mark Teixeira, A.J. Burnett, and others (not sure really what the O's had to do to be more aggressive in signing a very good 1B who did not want to come here and a perpetually somewhat injured Jekyll/Hyde starting pitcher, but eh) was to consolidate the salary structure and present it ready to be sold after this current season. This hopeful argument was then finished with the glee that Cal Ripken will ride throughout the kingdom on his white steed collecting offerings to generate enough cash to buy the team and restore us to our old glory, the Oriole Way.
Well . . . I'm not sure this is what Angelos is doing. I do not think he is consolidating payroll. I think there were good reasons not to dedicate the money to those players we lost out on. I actually advocated against signing either Burnett or Teixeira to megacontracts. All that is well and good for another discussion, but I will bring it back to why I do not want Cal Ripken to be the owner of the Orioles behind the jump.
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Ego and good intentions paved the way to 11 losing seasons and counting. That was Peter's human faility. He took over ownership of the Orioles in the early nineties and proceeded to spend a good deal of money to bring a championship to the Orioles. He also refused to allow Pat Gillick the freedom to make deals as he saw fit. Angelos' spending and his hesitancy to let Pat trade away quality players (i.e. Bobby Bonilla, Jeffrey Hammonds) let the Orioles into the playoffs in 1996 and a return trip in 1997. This success went to his head. Angelos may have been right contradicting Gillick's intentions, but it was not because he had a better head for baseball. Sometimes even the most brilliant baseball minds are wrong.
After '97, Angelos was certain he knew baseball well. He succeeded at law and now was succeeding at baseball. He then tossed Davey Johnson and Pat Gillick to the curb by not allowing them to do their own jobs. The next decade was spent with the team acting like the guyin your office in the corner cubicle who perpetually loses the fantasy baseball league you are in. The guy who does not know who the good young under the wire players are and who still thinks that Mike Piazza is still capable of playing ball. Angelos wants to win. I am sure of that. He wants to win as much as that guy in the corner cubicle in your office failing at fantasy baseball. They both just have no idea how to do it. Angelos wound up listening to Syd Thrift. The guy in the cube listens to Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan.
It seems now though that regional hatred and a decade of losing has humbled the old man. Angelos seems to think now that he does not know what he was doing and has left the team in the hands of a competent, maybe above average, GM in Andy MacPhail. MacPhail, so far, has been doing well collecting talent and avoiding large expenditures on free agents that have little use to us. Angelos may revert back to his previous form by signing the Albert Belles and demanding that we draft a Rice pitcher, but that does not seem to be what he believes these days. His ego has given way and his good intentions have led him to isolating himself from the baseball side of the operation.
This is what concerns me with Cal Ripken. He is a Hall of Fame player. He is a Baltimore Oriole. He is regarded by some to be capable of nearly anything. That is a problem. If anyone knows about his traveling habits, his basketball pickup games, and his general demeanor . . . he has an ego. That is fine. Ego is what let him become such a great baseball player. His skill set was amplified by his sheer determination. His playing days are worthy of awe and celebration. Just like Angelos' adeptness at being a trial lawyer should be worthy of awe and celebration. Likewise, the abilities and skills required for playing baseball well are not the same as the abilities and skills required for running a baseball operation. Ripken, I am sure, will have good intentions, but I question how he will handle his ego. Will he recognize that he has little to offer during the offseason or draft day? Will he try to minimalize the GM? Will he use an internal bully pulpit to have the Orioles operate as he sees fits? Would Ripken be a Billy Beane or a Matt Millen?
What says you, BORT? Am I off base? Should Angelos sell? What would be the ideal owner (specifically a name)?
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I remember the last white knight of big league baseball in Baltimore. His name was Peter Angelos.
ReplyDeleteOver the past year and a half I've become convinced that Angelos really has handed over control of the baseball operation to MacPhail. I think the management situation is stable, and that decisions are being made according to a reasonably intelligent long-term plan based on a reasonably sound understanding of how to build and maintain a winning team.
And it only took a decade and a half!
In short, the reasons for not wanting Peter Angelos to own this franchise seem to have faded away, and the last thing I would want is upheaval at the top with an unknown ripple effect through the organization. Until the summer of 2007, I would have said that almost any change would be welcome. I don't think that's true any longer.
I would also be wary of an ex-player owning the team and presumably making major decisions about the team that gets put on the field. Players know a lot about the inside game of baseball as it is played between the lines. They tend to be much less discerning about the principles of roster management, being overly impressed with counting stats, team chemistry, and veteranosity. I don't know about Cal. Maybe he understands career arcs and the value of a 19-year-old putting up league average numbers at High A. Maybe he's the next Billy Beane. More likely, though, he'd be the next Mike Flanagan.
Anyway, we finally seem to be doing OK. No more white knights, please.
I'll begin by saying that MacPhail's handling of baseball operations has been excellent.
ReplyDeleteWith that out of the way let me turn to the non-baseball operations of a baseball team.
I'm far from an insider, but a friend of mine works in the FO and he has held similar positions for other companies that he holds for the Orioles.
He is of the opinion that nepotism is to blame for the ineptness of the Orioles in terms of much of their ticket sales, PR, and MASN woes.
And I know they have done some things right in these departments...
but the Opening Day six pack?...Blame that debacle for all the "Derek Jeter" chants you hear on April 6. And I'm sure the six pack idea is not exclusive to the O's, but how many teams open up ticket sales to ticketmaster but not on their own ticket line or website? Why not just make the sales exclusive to the NY crowd? Stupid.
They've bungled a lot of stuff on the non-baseball side of things. I don't know how Cal Ripken would change the TV product or the ticket office or anything like that, but if it is true that the Angelos family runs things as ineptly as has been stated, then a change would be welcomed.
From my understanding, the reasoning for attaching the opening day game to a non-prime multigame pack is to try to depress the number of outsiders attending the game. Typically, other teams do this with higher volume season tickets which effectively cancels out opposing teams from taking over. The Oriole fan base is not rabid enough to dedicate so much money as to make this a viable option. You may know better than me, but which teams run exclusive ticket sales? I do not know of any.
ReplyDeleteI imagine there is some issue with how Angelos runs things. He seems like a guy who hires in-laws. I think that any change over in that side of the operation is likely to leak over into the actual baseball talent operation. I'd prefer a flailing economic sector than a flailing one on the playing field.
I agree with your last point, which is why I don't spend much time--if any--griping about the economic side of the Orioles operation. But I thought it was worth noting since we're on the topic of ownership.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the six pack, I certainly understand the impulse in bundling 4 non-prime games, but while the club is promoting the 6 pack deal here in MD, they are selling single game tickets on ticketmaster.com.
So, while everyone in the Baltimore area thinks they must buy six or not go to OD at all (and I'm sure many chose the "not go to OD at all" option) plenty of out of towners are going about their regular business of checking ticketmaster and getting their single game tix at face value.
It's just one example. As for the more important stuff, hiring MacPhail and only bothering him a couple times a month is certainly a wise decision.
Now if only Angelos didn't have so many darned in-laws.
Oh. I guess I pay little attention to the way tickets are sold. Makes me wonder if we have enough interest to sell all of those 6 pack tickets. I keep recalling the last few years how the game still has open seats until about 20-30 minutes before game time.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, we start getting more local interest.
"Anyway, we finally seem to be doing OK. No more white knights, please." - agree with this
ReplyDeleteI much prefer the Peter Angelos that seems to have been in charge the last couple years - the guy who's willing to open the checkbook if needed but generally stays out of the way.
I don't like the chances of Ripken doing the same, on either count. I think I even prefer a back-sliding Angelos to Ripken, as I feel that MacPhail would be able to talk him out of doing anything too stupid. With Cal, I feel like he wouldn't take MacPhail quite as seriously as a baseball guy, given that he is himself a baseball guy. Plus, Andy isn't exactly on the cutting edge among front offices to being with, so adding an ex-player like Cal to the mix is likely heading in the wrong direction.
To the other point; as with most things, winning is the #1 solution. If the team wins, then people will come to the park even with relatively bad PR.
If any of you is a secret billionaire, I'm willing to throw in a few bucks to buy the team and try really hard to stay out of Andy's way. Maybe just invest in some IT stuff.
I'd totally meddle. I'd like to field a team of well trained squirrels . . . that would be a difficult strike zone.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the major reasons why Beane has worked out as a GM is because he was an outright bust as a player. I fear that Ripken might be a lot like Joe Morgan in that he might misunderstand why he was such a good player. Eh.
I posted up this question at an Orioles Message Board.
Angelos 6
Ripken 34
It seems that even though the four of us are in somewhat a sort of agreement. We are in the minority. Are we aloof Oriole elitists?
Daniel: "With Cal, I feel like he wouldn't take MacPhail quite as seriously as a baseball guy, given that he is himself a baseball guy."
ReplyDeleteThere isn't any guarantee that a new owner would retain MacPhail, nor Jordan and the Stockstills. That alone is a reason to be wary of a change at the top. Most new owners would want to bring in their own guy after a few months of limbo, followed by a period of settling in during which the new guy gets his bearings and formulates his own master plan and brings in his chosen cohorts. Even if they're all brilliant, that's still a couple of seasons lost to the interregnum.
Jon: "I fear that Ripken might be a lot like Joe Morgan in that he might misunderstand why he was such a good player. Eh."
Something else about Cal that would worry me is that he seems to be a very busy guy with a lot of different business interests. We probably don't even know about most of them.
But running a baseball team in a hands-on fashion is pretty close to a full time job, I think. At least, there are periods in a year when it would demand a lot of attention. This appears to have been problematic for Angelos when he was deeply involved. Over the years there have been persistent anecdotes of club business (including trade proposals) languishing in PGA's office, awaiting his approval, while he was off doing other things.
If that's the case, then just having the decision-maker show up for work every day is a big improvement.
"Are we aloof Oriole elitists?"
Substitute "discerning" for "aloof" and I'll be all over it.
Interesting topic. I tend to echo the sentiments here - that is, I'd be careful not to upset the baseball side of things at the moment. I'd love to have a little more insight as to the changes being made on the scouting side of things, including international front, amateur draft and minor league. I'd hope the organization is learning from the likes of Texas and Atlanta as to how to integrate all facets of the scouting department to help facilitate cooperation at the various levels.
ReplyDeleteI would not be opposed to Cal taking a role in ownership or operations, but I don't know enough about his front office credentials to have any strong feelings. From what I can tell, he is an astute business man, which is a nice touch for ownership. His MiL experience could also help in identifying ways to connect to the fan base, since that's like 80% of owning a minor league franchise.
I don't know if they're well trained, but there are plenty of squirrels digging through my ceiling at the moment.
ReplyDeleteThey might not have the power you want, but I'll say this, they've got serious speed.
Any good owner should possess these traits:
ReplyDeleteBe willing to spend the cash to get players. Not recklessly but be willing to spend when the time comes to sign the top draft pick or the key free agent.
Understand the need for invesitng and scouting and the farm system. The money spent in this area prevetns the club from having to spend on so many of those top free agents. An understanding of this by the owner goes a long way.
Hire good baseball people and remain hands off. It's the owner's team and I can see putting in your two cents here and there when it comes to keeping players who are beloved (Cal Ripken, Brian Roberts) but other than that, tey need to keep out of it.
Creates a better fan experience, in the ballpark and out.
Angelos (who has always been ready to spend for free agents)has been beaten down into finally hiring an experienced baseball man and letting him run the place. The farm system is improving, the scouting system is improving, they are making smarter choices in free agency and locking up some of their young stars.
My only real beef with Angelos at this moment would be some issues with MASN. Hardly enough to change ownership over at this point.
I would assume Cal would have a huge focus on the farm system and scouting as well as PR. I'm pretty sure he would be a decent owner but things are going too well to switch directions now.